GlamRock.com Forum » Topic: GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES...

GlamRock.com Forum » Topic: GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES... http://glamrock.com/forum/ GlamRock.com Forum » Topic: GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES... en Sat, 26 May 2012 13:16:02 +0000 HEAVYMETALrocks on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-36628 Fri, 22 Apr 2011 20:44:34 +0000 HEAVYMETALrocks 36628@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Anyone like Hanoi Rocks? Rattrocker on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-35747 Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:15:00 +0000 Rattrocker 35747@http://glamrock.com/forum/ **WHITESNAKE **GREAT WHITE **TESLA **QUEENSRYCHE **DEF LEPPARD: NWOBHM to glam metal to hard rock **SKID ROW: glam metal **L.A.GUNS: glam metal **VAN HALEN: hevay metal **AEROSMITH: hard rock **SCORPIONS: heavy metal **OZZY: heavy metal **GUNS N ROSES: glam metal **TESLA: heavy metal **GREAT WHITE: glam metal **WHITESNAKE: blues rock to glam metal to hard rock **QUEENSRŸCHE: progressive metal **SAXON: BWOBHM to glam metal back to NWOBHM metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-33305 Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:20:30 +0000 metalrulesall 33305@http://glamrock.com/forum/ truer words was never spoken SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-33263 Sat, 25 Sep 2010 23:21:22 +0000 SIXX-Again 33263@http://glamrock.com/forum/ I think Manson's 'attempting' to carry on the glam tradition of music & showmanship. Appearance-wise and stage show: I applaud that he's carrying on the Alice Cooper/KISS tradition of give the audience something to look at as well as listen to! However...I don't think anyone really wants to see his scrawny ass in bondage gear exposed on stage! Musically he hasn't impressed me at all! The only songs of his I remotely like are all covers of 80s tunes("Tainted Love", "Down In The Park", "Sweet Dreams".) His original & signature song, "Beautiful People" is, in my opinion...crap(no offense meant if your a fan, though). Then there's the off-stage Manson: Every interview I've seen, the guy seems like an asshole. No sign of a sense of humor about his antics. That's one thing he never learned from Alice Cooper & KISS: DON'T TAKE WHAT YOU DO TOO SERIOUSLY...Especially when you're in a glam rock band. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> ironmanben on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-33260 Sat, 25 Sep 2010 18:12:04 +0000 ironmanben 33260@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Marilyn Manson is pretty glam, I think. He runs around wearing makeup and hairspray, and the musical hooks sound pretty hair-metal. metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-33077 Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:46:21 +0000 metalrulesall 33077@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Jæja ég held nokkuð óhætt að segja að Motley crue nokkurn veginn fundið Glam Metal SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32984 Sun, 12 Sep 2010 16:36:26 +0000 SIXX-Again 32984@http://glamrock.com/forum/ I finally got the computer away from my kids long enough to give my two cents on Def Leppard... To me Leppard is similar to Aerosmith. They started as a hard rock band -- very '70s rock feel to the music. The first two albums, On Through The Night and High 'n' Dry are good rock albums...With one amazing glam song from the latter: "Bringin' On The Heartbreak". One of the all time greatest Power Ballads. Then when Pyromania hit in '83, after Mutt Lange fine tuned Leppard in the studio(for basically a YEAR!), they emerged as a lean mean Glam machine. They stayed glam/pop metal until(as motleyguy pointed out) Steve Clark died. I haven't quite been able to figure out what they've been since his death -- but I haven't liked any of it. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> They still sound great!...But only when they play the hits. Back to the Aerosmith similarity: **Hard Rock origins: Leppard had On Through The Night and High 'n' Dry. Aerosmith had Get Your Wings and Toys In The Attic. **The 80s Glam phase: Leppard had Pyromania and Hysteria. Aerosmith had Permanent Vacation and Pump **The 90s & current "throw this shit against the wall and see what sticks" phase: Leppard's got Adrenalize, Retro Active, Slang, X, etc. etc.(crap, crap & more crap <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> ). Aerosmith is a little different here because they had Get A Grip before becoming erratic and giving us fluff like "Pink", "Jaded" & "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" -- not to mention the endless kick in the nuts to the once classic rock tune "Walk This Way" turned classic Rap tune! (Come on, Aerosmith!! You guys used to rock that song on your own! Now it takes N'Sync, Britney Spears, Mary J. Blige & Nelly with Aerosmith!? COME ON!!) Actually Leppard has been whoring out their music and rock credibility like Aerosmith. Playing "Photograph" with Country/Pop princess Taylor Swift! And rocking(or rednecking - whatever you call it) with Tim McGraw on their own song "Nine Lives". It truly saddens me to see once great rock bands sell their rock n roll souls to the mainstream devil in order to stay "hip and current". Leppard, Aerosmith & Bon Jovi all became giants in the world of rock. They've all softened with old age and desires to remain BIG. Learn from Motley Crue, guys! Stick with what your fans love, and your fans will stick with you! That's my two cents(maybe ten cents). Perfect timing...Here come my kids...LATER. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32900 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 12:58:55 +0000 metalrulesall 32900@http://glamrock.com/forum/ theres too songs of theres i really like theres wild in the streets and heavy metal love....theres a few others too but not alot Salem on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32897 Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:06:29 +0000 Salem 32897@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Not really a big Helix fan but loved seeing a teenage Traci Lords in their vid. metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32889 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:45:32 +0000 metalrulesall 32889@http://glamrock.com/forum/ who here likes helix anyone ? motleyguy on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32877 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 23:52:12 +0000 motleyguy 32877@http://glamrock.com/forum/ <blockquote>"Who has an opinion on Def Leppard?" - SIXX-Again </blockquote> I believe that Def Leppard, whilst Steve Clark was in the band were definitely a glam band. Steve died in 1991 and so did glam as a mainstream movement. There timing of these two events should not be ignored. His replacement, Vivian Campbell came from a long hair band pedigree but like Bon Jovi, the band successfully adapted to their fans changing tastes however, I do feel at heart that Def Leppard always were and still are a hair band. <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yN7JbCcQ5FY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yN7JbCcQ5FY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32788 Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:09:34 +0000 metalrulesall 32788@http://glamrock.com/forum/ i do ! haha...well first and formost, i fuckin love def leppard just about as much as i love the motherfuckin crue..theyve got excellent lyrics and musicianship..but as far as metal goes..i honestly think there earlier albums like on through the night(i.e the work they did b4 phil collin came along)was your typically glam rock even tho some songs did have metally riffs and shit but as for albums like pyromania and hysteria sound to me alot like pop in certain ways ya know ?...i think thats why alot of leppard fans consider them "pop metal" ...and thats my 2 cents SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32782 Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:14:36 +0000 SIXX-Again 32782@http://glamrock.com/forum/ That "poser" tag always annoyed the shit out of me! Especially when I heard bands like Metallica use it. They boast that their music is for "real" metal fans. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif' alt=':roll:' class='wp-smiley' /> And that glam fans were just following a trend. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif' alt=':roll:' class='wp-smiley' /> But I guarantee you're more likely to see someone in a Metallica shirt at a Poison concert, than someone in a Poison shirt at a Metallica concert! Why? Because glam rockers don't give a shit if you like thrash or glam -- it's what ever floats your boat. You know...freedom. However that freedom doesn't seem to exist among thrash fans. Go to a Slayer show wearing a Cinderella shirt: At best you get a roll of the eyes/shake of the head from others. Worst case scenario(and very likely), you get your ass kicked by some alpha-male thrasher screaming, "SLAAAAYERRR!!!" Why? Because they are the "posers", conforming to what is expected from a thrash fan. That is, hating anything Glam, and those who are real enough to say they love it! (We know they go home and listen to KISS' Destroyer. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> ) **I respect Axl for admitting he likes the songs of George Michael and The Pet Shop Boys, just like I respect Retroman for including Kelly Clarkson and Coldplay in his personal collection. Hell, as I've said before on another thread, my Motley Crue tapes used to reside next to my Milli Vanilli tape. And one week in the 80s I would see Duran Duran in concert, and the following week it would be the Crue. Who has an opinion on Def Leppard? Salem on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32781 Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:04:03 +0000 Salem 32781@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Well back then Slash was probably wearing that shirt cause someone gave it to him for free. Slash can pretend they weren't glam all he likes. I remember Motley, Skid Row & Poison saying the exact same thing. Look at the pic! His singer is standing there next to him in eyeliner, lipstick and hairspray. Yeah glad they weren't glam <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif' alt=':roll:' class='wp-smiley' /> . Retroman on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32779 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 18:35:52 +0000 Retroman 32779@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Like it or not, these 'ridiculous' tags exist for a reason and are here to stay. We need these tags/subgenres to clearly separate the many different types of artists and bands encounted over the years. I would say that it is not complicated, if you don't understand or care for a certain subgenre then you probably don't need to... you can simply step up a level and use a higher definition such as 'METAL' or 'ROCK' but that takes things back to square one again for example, if a bunch of christian metal fans described their taste as purely 'METAL' then confusion could arise when they tried to mingle with a group of black metallers, who also decided to described their taste as purely 'METAL' <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_evil.gif' alt=':evil:' class='wp-smiley' /> <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_evil.gif' alt=':evil:' class='wp-smiley' /> <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_evil.gif' alt=':evil:' class='wp-smiley' /> <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_evil.gif' alt=':evil:' class='wp-smiley' /> I do agree that back in the old days (the 80s) it was just about 'METAL' and separation was mainly 'glam' vs 'thrash'. The metalheads or 'rockers' as they were known in my town liked anything from Bon Jovi to Metallica mixing happily together. It was only later on in the 90s when I travelled from city to city in the UK that I came across genre snobs... sure we hung together in the same clubs and at parties but the subgenres of rock/metal seperated us, I remember the goths and extreme metallers being the worst. As for Kelly Clarkson being debated on this thread, it's a classic case of two people having opposing views when generic examples are used to define a point. I still say her musical sound can be described as 'alternative rock' hehe <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I think the trouble with Kelly is the simple fact that many metalheads don't like her so her very mention screws the whole debate up! I personally try to keep an academic perspective when it comes to classification. Ironically, just like SIXX-Again and myself discussed Kelly Clarkson from her appearance in my long list of example artists, Salem brought her into his argument thus she got mentioned yet again to prove another point, now I've had to mention her, arrrh will this ever end? Enough said, lets continue this thread on the original topic of the eternal glam metal debate... When it comes to Gun N'Roses, I can't bring myself to class them as 'glam' although they look that way. I would say 'hard rock' if I was pushed to define them. Like I said in a previous post, ask the band members if you wanna find out what style they are? I have provided a useful artical including Slash commenting on GNR's image: "We are not Glam shit or anything else. We are just Guns N'Roses." The following scan is from a May '89 editon of UK rock magazine, RAW. The influences are very interesting, somehow the Pet Shop Boys and George Michael get mentioned! This topic just gets weirder: <img src="http://static-2.socialgo.com/cache/135219/image/1968.png" alt="GNR" /> As for being a 'poser' or a 'scumbag'? I liked GNR, Iron Maiden and Metallica, in fact I wanted my hair just like Slash when I was 15 and judging from the photograph above, he liked Metallica too... is Slash wearing that T-shirt to annoy 'posers' or is it just a coincidence? Salem on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32778 Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:50:46 +0000 Salem 32778@http://glamrock.com/forum/ All these different tags for metal are ridiculous. It doesn't need to be that complicated. I hung out with a huge group of devoted headbangers back in the days when metal was at its peak and no one ever used terms like AOR, Alternative, Progressive Metal or Melodic Metal. It was simple, you were either a "scumbag" or a "poser". This meant that bands that were considered thrash, speed, death or black metal instantly fell into the "scumbag" category. If you listened to bands that were labeled glam, hard rock, sleaze or hair metal you were a "poser". There were exceptions to the rule that made it perfectly ok for both a poser and a scumbag to like certain bands ( Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, WASP, Dio, Motorhead, Ozzy). I was always a "poser" and had plenty of fellow poser friends but I had good friends who were scumbags too. They'd make fun of me for listening to guys in eyeliner & hairspray wearing tights and I'd make fun of them for listening to euro guys running around the woods at night with swords wearing Gene Simmons make-up pretending to be really evil. It didn't matter if you were into glam or into thrash, it was all about METAL, and thats what we should be talking about here instead of Kelly Clarkson and the fuckin' Sugababes. To answer the earlier question, yes Guns n Roses were glam and if you liked them you were a poser. If you didnt fall into either the "scumbag" or "poser" category then you were just a "tryhard" and your existence meant nothing. metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32759 Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:34:16 +0000 metalrulesall 32759@http://glamrock.com/forum/ i agree with you 100% SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32736 Sat, 21 Aug 2010 20:48:27 +0000 SIXX-Again 32736@http://glamrock.com/forum/ For me Ozzy only sounded Glam during the Jake E. Lee era(and what an era that was!!). PRE-LEE: The song "Crazy Train" has the glam metal feel to it as well. But all the other tunes from Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman sounded like standard heavy metal. POST-LEE: And once Zakk Wylde teamed up with Ozzy, the music returned to standard metal. So '83-'87 Ozzy: Definitely Glam(who can ever forget the outfit he wore in the "Shot in the Dark" video! <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> ). All surrounding years: Not Glam; standard heavy metal. At least to me... ironmanben on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32733 Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:17:12 +0000 ironmanben 32733@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Ozzy's earlier stuff seems pretty Glam Metal, like Flying High Again,etc. They had the big hair and the lyrics about sex and drugs enough to make them glam. But after Zakk Wylde, he startd to move out of that. Guns n' Roses is definitely Glam Metal, although there are many more genres of Rock they could fall under. Lyrical themes and visual appearance both make them glam. SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32732 Sat, 21 Aug 2010 08:14:06 +0000 SIXX-Again 32732@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Point taken on everything but Kelly Clarkson, Retroman. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> Sorry, but that's a giant leap for me to see her as anything but a manufactured pop star...literally. INXS is one of my top ten favorite bands of all time, and based on the Kick album they did rock it up. They've pretty much always done that, though. They rocked it up with "Don't Change"(from Shabooh Shoobah), and then synthed it up for "Johnson's Aeroplane"(from The Swing, and funked it up with "Need You Tonight"(from Kick)...They are amazing! And their constant shift in style puts them in the alternative category for me. I'm with you 100% on glam metal bands not requiring make-up, spandex, and sex, drug and Rock n Roll lyrics to be Glam Metal! For every "bad boy" band like Guns and Crue, there was a "nice boy" band like Bon Jovi and Stryper. For every make-up wearing band like Poison & Ratt, there was a no-nonsense band like Skid Row & Tesla... As I said it's the eternal debate...and I love it! <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> Look forward to more perspectives on specific bands! Especially Retroman's stance on Guns N' Roses. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> Retroman on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32717 Fri, 20 Aug 2010 18:40:10 +0000 Retroman 32717@http://glamrock.com/forum/ First of all, I only deal with thirteen genres in total to class my music collection as the whole process is a complete nightmare to start with so why make it harder! iTunes curently states that I have 4909 artists and 16422 items, 54.5 days playing time. I've got better things to do with my time than nit pick over what genre each artist or song should be, although Kings Of Leon, Nickelback and Alannah Myles are going to be re-classified to 'rock' because of this thread <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I use the following thirteen genres as a working system for both DJing and personal use, grouping specific artists together for quick retrieval: ALTERNATIVE AOR CYBER DANCE DISCO ELECTRONIC GOTH METAL POP PUNK ROCK URBAN XMAS Indie pop/rock and alternative/rock/metal screw up my whole system so I just throw tracks of that nature into the alternative section. I normally class an artist based on the tonal qualities i.e. guitar sound, playing style, vocals etc. I don't usually file artists under multiple genres unless I really have to. Anyway, here are my answers to some of SIXX-Again's previous questions: I classed Kelly Clarkson as alternative because of the guitars in 'Since U Been Gone': <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdxRS_GyBbM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cdxRS_GyBbM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WJedoEM7G5U"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WJedoEM7G5U" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> Kelly's a bit heavier than your average pop artist and at least she has a band. See the following two examples of recent pop music: <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/psuRGfAaju4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/psuRGfAaju4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/68D4GB6zJFc"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/68D4GB6zJFc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> As for INXS, I class them as 'rock' based on the 1987 album 'Kick': <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6jujG5X9iZs"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6jujG5X9iZs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> Incubus get classed as 'metal' because of the song "A Certain Shade Of Green". The guitar riffin' says 'metal' to me but who cares about 'em anyway: <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KDeN42-A6ZY"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KDeN42-A6ZY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> Roxy Music have had many styles over the years, I have them filed under rock, pop & disco. They are too complicated to discuss right now: <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0n3OepDn5GU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0n3OepDn5GU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3Mu4mSy4_Z8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3Mu4mSy4_Z8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w7Zk9Hp2iF0"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w7Zk9Hp2iF0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bpA_5a0miWk"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bpA_5a0miWk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> TESLA: I filed Tesla under AOR seven years ago but the official classification on their website is 'Hard Rock' hence the contradiction on my two previous posts. I think it is easy to say that Tesla were one of the more serious bands of the 80s/90s. They sang about real world issues rather than just sex & drugs... When they did sing about sex, drugs & rock n'roll, it had a certain elegance about it. I don't associate Tesla with the 'badboy' image that Motley Crue and Skid Row promoted. Tesla's music is based on blues, their back catalog has musical similarities to many 80s/90s glam metal bands. The very fact that they existed as a rock band in the 80s meant that they had the whole 80s image and fashion thing going on; big hair and glammy clothes although the 'glam metal' image was toned down on stage and in their music videos. Tesla certainly didn't wear make-up as their music came before image. The band were one of the first to release a live acoustic album following the 'unplugged' trend fueled by MTV in the late 80s. Tesla continued into the 90s writing 'glam metal' numbers, 'Edison's Medicine' for example. Tesla actually claim that they were never 'glam' but looking at their history and the bands they toured with it is easy to see why they were classified that way. The following videos show Tesla back in the 80s and early 90s. Looks/sounds like glam metal to me... I can also quite happily class them as 'hard rock' or 'hair metal' (explanation at the bottom of this post): <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/avAvkdYa3qM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/avAvkdYa3qM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3KuL4A0HlQE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3KuL4A0HlQE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yt-ybUuZjLE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yt-ybUuZjLE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-2zwBRa0YhA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-2zwBRa0YhA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object> To sum things up, I find that my definition of 'glam metal' doesn't necessarily mean the band needs to wear make-up. For me, it's the hair, the clothes, the music and the attitude. Confusingly, many of the bands on GlamRock.com can be placed into more than one of the following genres: 'hard rock', 'glam metal', 'glam rock' and 'hair metal' etc. There is no definitive answer (as yet). The problem arises when you try to classify a band into one specific genre and assume that all other similar bands are of the same vein. The truth is they are all 'rock' as opposed to 'rap', 'dance', 'classical' etc... Ask the bands yourself and you will probably get a completely different opinion from each of them. I'm gonna leave other bands including Guns N'Roses for another time... metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32689 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:53:13 +0000 metalrulesall 32689@http://glamrock.com/forum/ GNR arent glam because there lryics were more punk-ish oriented then they were glam oriented plus, i dont think they dressed at asll glam...they dressed really punky and even grungry alot of the time...thats my opinion and im sticking to it RockLibertyWarrior on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32687 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 04:21:13 +0000 RockLibertyWarrior 32687@http://glamrock.com/forum/ I have always considered GNR glam, when they started they had the whole make up thing going on but ditched it later. I guess to me glam music is just sleazy sounding and GNR had that sleazy sound, outrageousness, and biggness that just screamed GLAM! Incubus is not metal, their gayer than gay but again that is just my opinion. <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32686 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 04:10:56 +0000 SIXX-Again 32686@http://glamrock.com/forum/ Retroman! <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> Thorough as usual! Cheers to you, man! As far as your personal list/classification goes I agree with a lot of it...Some is odd to me, though. **Never thought of Kelly Clarkson or Kings of Leon & Nickelback as anything but Pop and Pop Rock respectively. Definitely not Alternative! **Never found Incubus to be Metal in any way. I would call them Alternative. Same with INXS under Rock, again, they're Alternative to me. **I've also(personally)never considered David Bowie, Roxy Music, or Japan Glam Rock, even though I always see them classified as such. I've always thought of Bowie as an originator of Alternative. And Roxy Music & Japan as originators of New Wave/Synth Rock. But, hey, everybody's has their own opinion about music and how to classify it. And it's all good. It inspires fun, yet spirited & passionate debates(right, Brooklynace? <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> ...That's an inside joke...). I am curious, Retroman, what do you consider Tesla? On your two posts you have them classified as different things. Post #1 as Heavy Metal/Hard Rock/Heavy Rock, and in Post #2 you have them as AOR which you said was your Glam metal bands list. I'm assuming it's the classification on Post #2? I'd like to also acknowledge metalrulesall's comment about the lyrics of the songs playing a big role... This is another perfect example of the hypocritical opinions that GNR was not glam, while Motley Crue is. Each band had a 'love' song about killing their girl("Used To Love Her" from Guns, and "You're All I Need" from Crue.). Both had songs about addictions("Mr. Brownstone" from Guns, "Dancing On Glass" from Crue), etc, etc. So I ask again, why is GNR not Glam Metal, but Motley Crue is? <img src='http://glamrock.com/forum/bb-images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':?' class='wp-smiley' /> RockLibertyWarrior on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32680 Wed, 18 Aug 2010 02:44:37 +0000 RockLibertyWarrior 32680@http://glamrock.com/forum/ For lack of a better term I don't use glam when in a conversation with people about music of the 80's. I use hair metal which encompasses all bands from Poison and Crue to Metallica to Slayer. Some of the bands above you listed didn't wear make up or even some of the clothes associated with glam. However in sound they are glam metal! Really Rhythm and Bluesy based music for the most part but again it seems Slayer and Queensryche threw out the blues book some I am a bit confused but I still call it hair metal! metalrulesall on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32675 Tue, 17 Aug 2010 14:42:00 +0000 metalrulesall 32675@http://glamrock.com/forum/ i believe everything that was said in the beginning about the look...but i truely believe the lyrics and the music itself play just as big a role in making glam what glam truely is Retroman on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32647 Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:13:20 +0000 Retroman 32647@http://glamrock.com/forum/ **UPDATE** Here are some bands taken from my iTunes digital DJ collection that I started back in 2003. I have listed them in the genres that I initially defined and work with. I filed glam metal bands under AOR (Adult Oriented Rock). I have found that is not convenient to 'spit hairs' when organising my music collection. The following list is personal and may not reflect the actual true classification: AOR: Alannah Myles Babylon AD Badlands Beau Nasty Big House Black Crowes Blue Blud Bonfire Bonham Brighton Rock Britny Fox Bulletboys Child's Play Chrissy Steele Cinderella Cold Sweat Danger Danger Dare Doro Electric Boys Enuff Z'Nuff Every Mother's Nightmare Extreme Faster Pussycat Fate Femme Fatale Firehouse FM Giant Great White Gypsy Rose House Of Lords Howe 2 Hurricane Icon Jagged Edge Johnny Crash Kik Tracee Kingdom Come Kix L.A. Guns Leatherwolf Lee Aaron Lion Lita Ford Little Angels Lynch Mob Michael Monroe Motley Crue Mr. Big MSG National Velvet Poison Precious Metal Pretty Boy Floyd Princess Pang Queensryche Ratt Robin Beck Romeo's Daughter Roxx Gang Saraya Shark Island Skid Row Slaughter Sleeze Beez Slik Toxik Smashed Gladys Sons Of Angels Spread Eagle Steelheart Sweet F.A. Tesla Thunder Tigertailz TNT Tora Tora Trixter Tuff Tyketto Vain Vamp Vinnie Vincent Invasion Vixen Warrant White Lion Winger Wolfsbane XYZ Yngwie Malmsteen ROCK: Aerosmith Alice Cooper Baby Animals Bangles Belinda Carlisle Berlin Billy Idol Bon Jovi Boston Bryan Adams Cars Cher Chicago Cult Damn Yankees David Lee Roth Deep Purple Def Leppard Dio Dire Straits Doors Europe Fleetwood Mac Genesis Guns N'Roses Heart INXS Joan Jett And The Blackhearts Journey KISS Led Zeppelin Living Colour Marillion Meat Loaf Pat Benatar Pink Floyd Police Pretenders Queen Quireboys REM Roxette Roxy Music Runaways Rush Sad Cafe Saxon Scorpions Simple Minds Slade Status Quo Stevie Nicks Styx Survivor Sweet T'pau T. Rex Twisted Sister U2 Ugly Kid Joe Van Halen Whitesnake ZZ Top METAL: AC/DC Acid Reign Almighty Annihilator Anthrax At The Gates Black Sabbath Blaze Bruce Dickinson Carcass Celtic Frost Coal Chamber Cradle Of Filth Dark Funeral Dark Tranquillity Darkness Death Death Angel Dimmu Borgir Dissection Disturbed Emperor Evanescence Fear Factory Grip Inc. Helloween Immortal Incubus Iron Maiden Judas Priest Korn Kreator Lacuna Coil Linkin Park Lostprophets Machine Head Mayhem Megadeth Metallica Ministry Morbid Angel Mordred Motorhead Napalm Death Onslaught Overkill Ozzy Osbourne Pantera Papa Roach Phantom Blue Rob Zombie Sanctuary Sepultura Slayer Slipknot Soulfly Strapping Young Lad System Of A Down Testament Warlock Wasp White Zombie Whithin Temptation ALTERNATIVE: 30 Seconds To Mars Alanis Morissette Alice In Chains Avril Lavigne Biffy Clyro Bullet For My Valentine Cardigans Coldplay Depeche Mode Editors Elbow Electric Six Enter Shikari Faith No More Feeder Foo Fighters Franz Ferdinand Fratellis Funeral For A Friend Garbage Goldfrapp Green Day Gun Hole Joy Division Kaiser Chiefs Kasabian Kelly Clarkson Kill Hannah Killers Kings Of Leon Kooks L7 Lenny Kravitz Levellers Libertines Lily Allen Limp Bizkit Lostprophets Love/Hate Lucie Silvas Manic Street Preachers Marilyn Manson Metro Station Mind Funk Mission Muse My Chemical Romance New Order Nickelback Nine Inch Nails Nirvana Oasis Offspring Paramore Pendulum Pink Placebo Pleasure Bombs Prodigy Puddle Of Mud Pulp Radiohead Rage Against The Machine Razorlight Red Hot Chili Peppers Skunk Anansie Snow Patrol Soundgraden Staind Stefy Stereophonics Terrorvision Therapy Ting Tings Tori Amos Veronicas Zutons GOTH: All About Eve Anathema Cure Fields Of The Nephilim Gary Numan Killing Joke London After Midnight Moonspell My Dying Bride Opeth Paradise Lost Siouxsie And The Banshees Sisters Of Mercy Switchblade Symphony Type O Negative Retroman on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32637 Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:11:29 +0000 Retroman 32637@http://glamrock.com/forum/ SIXX-Again Cheers man for creating this topic. <blockquote>"I say, why split hairs? The 80s gave us two types of metal: Thrash metal and Glam(Pop) metal. All the other styles are just sub-genres of these two types of metal. So where do you stand in the eternal debates? Pick one band, or pick them all, or cite one not listed, and tell us if you think they're Glam or Not. Why or why not?" - SIXX-Again </blockquote> In reality there are no subgenres of 'Thrash Metal' or 'Glam Metal'. The easiest explanation is to show the hierarchical structure (using indentation) of the rock music genre. Alternative names of subgenres are seperated by a slash. Please note that I have only included the subgenres of interest, i.e. those that cover the 70s or 80s: ROCK ....ALTERNATIVE ROCK / ALTERNATIVE MUSIC ........GOTHIC ROCK / GOTH ROCK / GOTH ........GRUNGE ....BLUES ROCK ....FUNK ROCK ........FUNK METAL ....GLAM ROCK / GLITTER ROCK ....HEAVY METAL / HARD ROCK / HEAVY ROCK ........EXTREME METAL ............BLACK METAL ............DEATH METAL ................MELODIC DEATH METAL ............GRINDCORE ............THRASH METAL ........GLAM METAL / HAIR METAL / POP METAL / SLEAZE METAL ........NU METAL / AGGRO METAL ........POWER METAL ........PROGRESSIVE METAL ........SPEED METAL ....PROGRESSIVE ROCK / PROG ROCK ....PSYCHEDELIC ROCK ....PUNK ROCK ........GLAM PUNK ........HARDCORE PUNK / HARDCORE Many bands change musical direction during the course of their career so it is usually appropriate to never class them as one specific genre. Here are some notes on how the important subgenres of rock came about. The year is placed after each band to construct the timeline of formation. BLUES ROCK Blues rock is an important subgenre of rock that encompasses many recording artists. The Rolling Stones 1962, The Animals 1962 and Eric Clapton 1962 were among the first to develop the blues rock sound. Other bands include Fleetwood Mac 1967, ZZ Top 1969, Gary Moore 1969 and The Black Crowes 1989. Blues rock influenced the style of many glam metal and hard rock bands of the 80s and early 90s. HEAVY METAL / HARD ROCK / HEAVY ROCK The roots of this subgenre can be traced to the 1960s and include blues, garage and psychedelic rock. Black Sabbath 1968, Deep Purple 1968 and Judas Priest 1968 were the first pioneers of heavy metal followed by the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal including Iron Maiden 1975. Heavy metal or simply 'metal' has many subgenres to categorise the results of the fusions between the multitude of musical styles it has adopted. Many bands fall into this classification including Led Zeppelin 1968, Aerosmith 1970, KISS 1973, AC/DC 1973, Van Halen 1972, Def Leppard 1977, Whitesnake 1977, Guns N'Roses 1985, Skid Row 1986 and Tesla 1984. Material produced before the sub-dividing of the metal genre is usually classed as 'classic metal' or 'traditional metal'. GLAM ROCK / GLITTER ROCK The roots of this subgenre date back to the early 1970s and include Gary Glitter 1960, Mud 1966, Slade 1966, Sweet 1968 and Roxy Music 1971. It must be noted that David Bowie's connection with this era is short lived during the use of his alter ego 'Ziggy Stardust'. PUNK ROCK The New Yorks Dolls 1971 are seen as the initiators of the Punk era. Bands include The Ramones 1974, The Stranglers 1974, The Sex Pistols 1975, The Runaways 1975 and The Clash 1976. GOTHIC ROCK / GOTH ROCK / GOTH The Cure 1976 are one of the early pioneers of this darker form of rock. Other bands include Siouxsie and the Banshees 1976, The Sisters Of Mercy 1980, The Cult 1983, Fields of the Nephilim 1984 and All About Eve 1984. HARDCORE PUNK / HARDCORE The pioneers of this subgenre were the The Dead Kennedys 1978. Bands include Discharge 1977, The Exploited 1979 and Agnostic Front 1980. Hardcore punk influenced the thrash metal scene. The phrase 'Mosh' comes from the way hardcore punk fans acted on the dance floor. GLAM METAL / HAIR METAL / POP METAL / SLEAZE METAL Glam metal has many names, all encompassing the same set of bands. Ratt 1976 and Motley Crue 1981 were among the first to pioneer the style of music that would later be classed as 'glam metal'. Other bands include Europe 1979, Kix 1978, Poison 1983, Warrant 1984 and Cinderella 1983 and many more... SPEED METAL Pioneered by Motorhead 1975, Judas Priest 1968 and the NWOBHM, you will find elements of speed metal in many thrash bands including Slayer 1981 and Anthrax 1981. THRASH METAL Influenced by the heavy metal band Venom 1979, many of the early thrash bands came from the San Francisco Bay Area and included Exodus 1980, Overkill 1980, Metallica 1981, Slayer 1981 and Anthrax 1981. Megadeth came a little later in 1983. Thrash metal had commercial success in the 80s and well into the 90s. It is claimed that Metallica initially played thrash metal to annoy the glam metal fans of the Sunset Strip. BLACK METAL The heavy metal band Venom 1979 helped influence this subgenre, which took its name from their second studio album "Black Metal" 1982. The first wave of bands included Bathory 1983 , Hellhammer 1982, Celtic Frost 1984 and Mayhem 1984. The second wave came in the late 80s and early 90s and mainly consisted of Norwegian bands including Darkthrone 1987, Burzum 1991, Emperor 1991, Immortal 1989 and Cradle of Filth 1991. Black metal is one of the most brutal sounding forms of the heavy metal genre. Cradle Of Filth helped promote the existence of black metal during the 90s, being very popular with teenie 'goth' girls. DEATH METAL The initial pioneer of death metal was the band Death 1983. Other bands include Morbid Angel 1984, Cannibal Corpse 1988, Carcass 1985, Obituary 1985, Sepultura 1984, At The Gates 1990, Dissection 1989, Dark Tranquillity 1989 and Fear Factory 1989. Death metal has grown to be one of the biggest forms of heavy metal and has spawned many of its own subgenres. GRINDCORE Napalm Death 1981 are credited as the initial innovators of this brutal subgenre of heavy metal, taking influences from hardcore punk. Bands include Extreme Noise Terror 1985, Terrorizer 1986 and Autopsy 1987. FUNK METAL Faith No More 1981 were one of the first bands to invent this subgenre. Bands include Bang Tango 1987, Extreme 1985, Electric Boys 1988, Living Colour 1984 and Mordred 1984. The genres defined above were all legitimate, unique and had fan bases during the 70s and 80s. To conclude, using the rock genre tree - all of the bands in the following list can be classed as either rock, heavy metal, hard rock or heavy rock. Glam metal is used to classify a specific range of 80s bands that roughly contain the definition you initially quoted from wikipedia. It is hard to find a band that is pure 'glam metal' as the whole genre was named in retrospect, plus many bands changed direction or were simply part of the glam metal scene in passing, take Aerosmith for example. **WHITESNAKE **GREAT WHITE **TESLA **QUEENSRYCHE **DEF LEPPARD **SKID ROW **L.A.GUNS **VAN HALEN **AEROSMITH **SCORPIONS **OZZY **GUNS N ROSES SIXX-Again on "GLAM METAL OR NOT? THE ETERNAL DEBATES..." http://glamrock.com/forum/glam-forum/glam-metal-or-not-the-eternal-debates#post-32622 Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:31:03 +0000 SIXX-Again 32622@http://glamrock.com/forum/ <blockquote>"Musically, glam metal uses traditional hard rock and heavy metal songs, incorporating elements of punk rock, while adding pop-influenced catchy hooks and guitar riffs. Like other heavy metal songs of the 1980s, they often feature shred guitar solos. Aesthetically glam metal draws heavily on the glam rock or glitter rock of the 1970s, often with very long backcombed hair, use of make-up, gaudy clothing and accessories (chiefly consisting of tight denim or leather jeans, spandex, and headbands)."</blockquote> That's how Wikipedia characterizes glam metal. And I think it's pretty dead on. It describes in one way or another all the bands we celebrate and pan on GlamRock.com. From Aerosmith to Winger. From old bands like the Crue, to new bands like Crashdiet. Musically and aesthetically. Bands like KISS, Motley Crue, Poison, Ratt, Cinderella, Warrant, Britny Fox & Stryper are, without a doubt, glam metal. But what about bands like Whitesnake, Great White, Tesla, Queensryche, Van Halen, Aerosmith, Scorpions, Skid Row, Def Leppard, Ozzy...and of course, Guns N Roses? They all followed the glam metal standards in some way or another: Arena anthems, power ballads, spandex, etc. All of them. I've heard/read/had endless debates(80s to present day)about these bands being Glam metal or not. **Great White, Whitesnake & Tesla. Are they glam metal or blues rock? **Queensryche. Are they glam metal or progressive metal? **Ozzy, Aerosmith, Van Halen & Scorpions. Aren't they just classic rockers whose sounds evolved with the times? **Guns N Roses. Always described as being "grittier and rawer" than all the Glam bands, and therefore not glam. Compared to Poison & Warrant, absolutely. But remember, their "grittier" music includes "Sweet Child O Mine", "November Rain", "Mr. Brownstone", and "Welcome To The Jungle". Pretty mainstream tunes. Even in the late 80s/90s when they were new. So what do we do? We create another sub-genre and call them "sleaze". I say, why split hairs? The 80s gave us two types of metal: Thrash metal and Glam(Pop) metal. All the other styles are just sub-genres of these two types of metal. So where do you stand in the eternal debates? Pick one band, or pick them all, or cite one not listed, and tell us if you think they're Glam or Not. Why or why not? **WHITESNAKE **GREAT WHITE **TESLA **QUEENSRYCHE **DEF LEPPARD **SKID ROW **L.A.GUNS **VAN HALEN **AEROSMITH **SCORPIONS **OZZY **GUNS N ROSES