No offense Panurge, all musical tastes are relative to each person. Thats just my, and I wish I could underline my, opinion and of course isn't the end all be all, some people like grunge on this forum, good for you if you like it, just not my favorite form of music and also about my snarky comment above don't take me serious I have a really morbid sense of humor, even when it comes to bands I like. To answer your question on what a poseur is N1v3n did a great job of answering it because I was going to say the same thing. Good job man.
GlamRock.com Forum » POLLS forum
Kurt Cobain DIDN'T kill glam
(76 posts)-
RockLibertyWarrior
offlineMemberPostCount: 715
Posted 3 years ago # -
Panurge
offlineMemberPostCount: 104
OK...
RLW, I guess I shouldn't be so bitchy, either. I certainly don't like grunge enough for it to overwhelm my resentment of it for making me even more culturally isolated than I'd be otherwise.
N1v3n, I know what you mean, but there does seem to be a certain well-craftedness to the songwriting itself (or, again, at least the tunes and lyrics) that I don't hear in much glam. A chord progression (or a tune) can be simple and still just a little unconventional (think about the verses of "Lithium", for example).
For all that, I certainly don't think he was a "fucking GENIUS"--just a good songwriter. Still, the way they bring it off with minimal technique stands as a testament to the punk method--concentrate on what appears essential and don't worry about anything else (no matter how helpful it would be). Better this than some meaningless shred-fest, the argument goes, but I'd be the first one to call that a false alternative.
"Lives devoted to Beauty seldom end well." --Sir Kenneth ClarkPosted 3 years ago # -
motleyguy
offlineMemberPostCount: 253
Nuthin' to add but I gotta say that the view points in this thread are very impressive in the knowledge and how they are expressed. 
Rock & roll over babePosted 3 years ago # -
metalrulesall
offlineMemberPostCount: 1837
the only thing kurt cobain did was ALOT of herion and make kick ass music (god rest his soul)...and if he was one reason why glam almost died out how can be held responsible...its not like he ment to do any actual harm and ANYONE who dont like him or nirvana can kiss my hairy white ass (sorry guys but i do mean ANYONE)
" into the flood again same old trip it was back then "Posted 3 years ago # -
RockLibertyWarrior
offlineMemberPostCount: 715
"the only thing kurt cobain did was ALOT of herion and make kick ass music (god rest his soul)...and if he was one reason why glam almost died out how can be held responsible...its not like he ment to do any actual harm and ANYONE who dont like him or nirvana can kiss my hairy white ass (sorry guys but i do mean ANYONE)"
- metalrulesallThats a pretty image.
metalrulesall you rock! You made my day!
Posted 3 years ago # -
GlamMetalKyd
offlineMemberPostCount: 14
Cobain kill glam? Naaaa, no way.
He contributed but also it is rumored some dvd ruined it as well. Cant recall the name of the DVD however.Posted 3 years ago # -
Panurge
offlineMemberPostCount: 104
...also it is rumored some dvd ruined it as well. Cant recall the name of the DVD however.
The Metal Years, maybe? More than one reviewer talked about how the local scenesters in that film didn't acquit themselves too well, in contrast to (natch) Dave Mustaine, the designated (and, of course, very un-glam) Voice of Wisdom.
"Lives devoted to Beauty seldom end well." --Sir Kenneth ClarkPosted 3 years ago # -
BillyAcid
offlineMemberPostCount: 458
i actualy like Nirvana all though they didn't really like glam but didn't they do a Bowie cover? So that's pretty ironic if you ask me
it puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose againPosted 3 years ago # -
Dollbreaker
offlineMemberPostCount: 21
Nirvana covered a song (Run Rabbit Run) by a glam band called Smack. Sam Yaffa of Hanoi and Dolls fame played with them briefly.
BTW, I think Kurt would like a 'I shot Kurt' t-shirt. I think that he really hated being popular as opposed to glam bands who thrived on it. Kurt would just as soon made a decent living playing clubs like they did before Nevermind.
Posted 3 years ago # -
andywicked
offlineMemberPostCount: 63
to summerize..........
ahem..
MY BALLS... NIRVANA'S MOUTH.... gargle bitch
Posted 3 years ago # -
rattmotleyguns
offlineMemberPostCount: 6
no it wasn't cobain who killed glam in my opinion, i agree with the above statement that there was just a new generation of people who wanted something differn't to listen to, me personally a hate grunge and the main thing i love the most about glam/sleaze is the party attitude of the music.
Posted 3 years ago # -
BillyAcid
offlineMemberPostCount: 458
i really agree with you on the party attitude of glam/sleaze because it takes your mind off of the everyday bullshit that goes with life and grundge is kinda depressing
it puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose againPosted 3 years ago # -
rattmotleyguns
offlineMemberPostCount: 6
yeah its party music, im not saying grunge artists aren't talented as they must be to be songwriters,just could never get into the music.
Posted 3 years ago # -
ResedaCountryClub
offlineMemberPostCount: 36
Kurt Cobain had nothing to do with the fall of 80's Hard Rock and heavy Metal in the mainstream.
Reasons:
1) MTV stopped playing the 80's based Hard Rock/Metal videos. They jumped on the next fad.
2) Record companies signed everyone that had the Hairband image. The market was flooded with to much of the same thing. It also became formula to put out the rocker as the first single and the power ballad after that. The whole scene became predicable. Roxy Blue was signed to major label for God's sake. Record companies pulled their promotion dollars and sunk them into Rap and Grunge.
3) FM turned it's back as well.
Posted 3 years ago # -
metalrulesall
offlineMemberPostCount: 1837
my main point is....its not all kurts fault...i mean fuck...anybody with a brain in there god damn head has to admit that smells like teen spirit,wiether or not u like nirvana or grunge,is a fuckin kick ass tune....any one disagree ?
" into the flood again same old trip it was back then "Posted 3 years ago # -
livingdead70
offlineMemberPostCount: 4
I am so sick of people calling Kurt Cobain a genius. I am also sick of people saying he killed glam, glam killed itself. Well the labels killed it really, it got to be too big, they were pushing it too much. Remember 1991 when there were umpteen bands no one ever heard of on MTV. Bands like Kingofthehill, Kick Tracee that were just awefull and you could tell the labels were just pushing them to be that way. No offence to those bands or anyone that was in them, but it was shit like that that did it. You have to keep in mind Poison had a no 1 album in 1993. And a very successfull tour that summer ( I saw it in atlanta at Lakewood and it was pretty fuckin crowded). 1994 was when it really got bad, the MC 94 album tanked ( i liked it, still do) Cinderellas Still CLimbing tanked ( another good album). too much time passed between albums for these bands. The labels didnt push them like they used too. Some of these albums may have done well if the labels promoted them better,,,,,,,,, anyhoo, who cares about all that now. I think Glam is still fucking rocking, and will never die. Seems to me its gaining steam over the past few years. Bands are reforming, touring, doing well. And its only going to stay that way if we get out and buy the cds and buy the tickets.
People think Im strange, they think Im nuts , they think Im stuck in the past, I dont give a fuck, I love it and always will. I always tell people when I die they better have Ratt Crue and Cinderalla cranked at my funeral.
Oh yeah, Kurt Cobain. He was a drug addict, who managed to write a few catchy hooks. I wish to fuck he hadnt killed himself because now he probaly wouldnt be such a martyr now and we wouldnt have to hear about how he was the depressed genius or whatever the fuck people come up with. Seattle bands? How about Mother Love Bone.
treyPosted 3 years ago # -
Panurge
offlineMemberPostCount: 104
@livingdead70:
Well, obviously Cobain wrote more "catchy hooks" than, oh, Andrew Wood did...
OK, sorry, low blow. But if you prefer MLB to Nirvana, you oughta have twice the beef with AW that you do with KC.
But yeah, radio (or the lack of it) did have a lot to do with it. Plenty of people never knew that the likes of Still Climbing even existed. I thought at least Tesla would make it through (lower glam quotient = more cred).
AIUI, a lot of it had to do with a spat in the radio industry over which radio format, AOR or "alternative", would get the credit for breaking grunge. Alternative won, and that left AOR with no new music of their own because record companies weren't signing hair bands anymore, and they weren't signing hair bands anymore largely because AOR was dropping glam bands in order to attract the grunge audience, and that's why that format mostly collapsed (though many of today's "classic-rock" stations are close now, the rock radio industry having largely learned their lesson, though too late to keep their status as any sort of home for new music). If AOR had ignored grunge and stuck with hair bands or groove-metal bands (don't forget the class of '89--Jane's Addiction, etc.), could it have survived as an independent format? Who knows? (JA etc., after all, were even more connected with "alternative" than the grunge bands were. Some, like Saigon Kick, skewed more AOR, though.)
Anyway: A bunch of stuff killed glam, yeah, but it was largely self-inflicted, too. It's gonna take new bands with something new (and not half-assed) to say to bring it back in a big way, though.
"Lives devoted to Beauty seldom end well." --Sir Kenneth ClarkPosted 3 years ago # -
Guitarsmurf
offlineMemberPostCount: 66
What the heck? Guys, what are we talking about? Kurt Cobain's been dead for a long time and glamrock/hairmetal is still very much alive today.
However... IMO Kurt Cobain was indeed one of the factors of the demise of glam/hairmetal in the 90s. Him and the rest of the Seattle homeless people's association aka grunge movement. I knew it was all over when all of a sudden Nirvana graced the cover of Guitar World. Music in the era +/- 1993-1999 sucked big time. I'll allow Nirvana has a "few" interesting tunes, but overall the music just makes me wanna put a gun to my head (sounds familiar?) and get it over with.
Anyway, that's all over now. It's cool to like the 80s again. There are new generation hairbands coming up every day. Guitar manufacturers are making multi-colored, spikey axes again. So all's well that ends well in the land of glam and hair.
Posted 3 years ago # -
livingdead70
offlineMemberPostCount: 4
WHy would I have a beef with andrew? cause of the drugs, yeah I think he was dumb too, but great band. Definatly a great band, course Andrews death spurned Pearl Jam, who is one band I am violently opposed to.
SPeaking of new bands, what do you guys think of Vains of Jenna?
treyPosted 3 years ago # -
RockLibertyWarrior
offlineMemberPostCount: 715
" Music in the era +/- 1993-1999 sucked big time."
- GuitarsmurfDude your correct. I was in high school in those years, I wore a leather jacket, a 80's metal shirt, ripped acid washed jeans, snake skin cowboy boots and my hair was to my shoulders. I listened to glam even back then because there was nothing else worth listening to in that time period. I have said over and over again that the 90's sucked big warty dick, people get in arguments with me: Korn anybody? Blink 182 anybody? Third Eye Blind? How bout the 1000th Nirvana? Look I don't hate all of grunge or Nirvana's music, I just don't prefer every song to be sad sack, whoa is me shit all the time. It sucks Kurt killed himself (some say Courtney did it but I digress) but as with glam it started a chain reaction of whiny bands that drove me up the wall. No one understood why I'd much rather listen to Judas Priest, Cinderella or Twisted Sister as opposed to Stinkin' Park, Limp Biscuit (they were really limp and soggy in more ways than one) or Puff Diddlyshit. Most of the 90's music bit it bad but there was a few exceptions.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Hairmetalchild
offlineMemberPostCount: 36
Things change it's not his fault
But I don't get how ppl started liking such depressing musicPosted 3 years ago # -
Panurge
offlineMemberPostCount: 104
They've been listening to "depressing music" since the "new wave" days; the depression was just cloaked in "irony" before grunge came along. Besides, if you just plain like it, it's not gonna be so important what it's about. Besides that, people just feel down occasionally, and lots of people like feeling that they're not alone--and the right song can do that job. The problem is when you start wallowing, which is easier to do that lots of us like to admit.
"Lives devoted to Beauty seldom end well." --Sir Kenneth ClarkPosted 3 years ago # -
annn
offlineMemberPostCount: 34
i dont think he killed glam
glam killed itself.. it was so weakened, it had to dieanyway, in my opinion, kurt represents all the sh*teous music that came after glam... music will never be the same
MY opinion hey, i dont want to offend anyone
.. cc pick up that guitar and talk to me!
.- life's a journey, not a destination -.Posted 3 years ago # -
Panurge
offlineMemberPostCount: 104
it was so weakened, it had to die
I'm familiar with this line of reasoning, but after all this time I still don't quite get it. How was glam "weakened"? What music would you give as an example? Warrant? Firehouse? Extreme?
Not taking offense; I'm just saying that "X is in a bad state, therefore X needs to go" is too often a cop-out. If X is in a bad state, then fix it already, especially if killing it wouldn't really make anything better.
"Lives devoted to Beauty seldom end well." --Sir Kenneth ClarkPosted 3 years ago # -
annn
offlineMemberPostCount: 34
well in some way i agree in that with you.
what i think is that glam became a fashion, and it had to die as a fashion, let people who listens glam in the radio move on and listen whats next on the radio.
and of course i'd have loved glam to be fixed.. but i thinks it was little bit hard to do that, specially if people wanted to listen something different, as BillyAcid said.(i totally agree with that). I bet glam's real fans kept on listening it anyway..
i dont think at all "killing" glam made anything better, but of course there was people that did, and thats why labels, radio, tv, etc. moved on and saw the opportunity of bussiness in another thing.ps. glad you dont take it as an offense, thats not my intention, i love to read everyone else's opinons, is a great way to see things from another point of view and learn
.. cc pick up that guitar and talk to me!
.- life's a journey, not a destination -.Posted 3 years ago # -
defleppfreak
offlineMemberPostCount: 50
Nirvana was a GREAT band, but I think that they helped kill it. Plus times change....people change and the music changed along with it! Some glam bands tried the grunge thing, and then grunge died and now we have this new rock that I dont even what its called and Motley Crue crossed over and now their doin that and it seems very sucessful. Anyways, you cant put all the blame on Kurt or Nirvana.....just some it. lol
Posted 2 years ago # -
drakonyx
offlineMemberPostCount: 65
Cobain didn't kill Glam - it probably was the other way around. Musical tastes wax and wane. Listeners had gotten their fill of '80s hair metal, just like they had their fill of the first wave of Glam by the mid-70s (when Bowie changed styles, Bolan fell out of favor and Sweet stopped hitting the charts). What comes around goes around. Today Def Leppard and Poison are still cranking out strong tunes; The Ark is big in Europe; neo-glammeister Adam Lambert is killng them on American Idol. It all happens in phases. Cobain didn't really do anything. I don't care much for Nirvana overall, but I have do admit I like Nirvana's version of Bowies "The Man Who Sold the World."
Posted 2 years ago # -
BillyAcid
offlineMemberPostCount: 458
yeah his version of man who sold the world didn't sound half bad. but my point is this, people get tired of hearing the same old shit all the time and most of the glam bands at the end of the era started copying eachother with the ballads and it became so G rated and predictable that it was easy to kill it as annn said it was weak. Glam had gotton so weak that the depressing shit that Nirvana and the other grunge bands sang about stood out more and people followed it. Like now adays i am waiting for a band to actually stand out because most of the shit they pay on the adio sounds excally the same and you can barely tell the bands apart any more. Sure i like the new glam scene i have to like it i'm apart of it in a way but they are starting to copy eachother too and it's only a matter of time before it implodes on it's self like glam did back in the day. trends and fads come and go to the people who weren't die hard fans of this wonderful music glam was just a fad
it puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose againPosted 2 years ago # -
Zeitgeist475
offlineMemberPostCount: 34
I don't think that Cobain killed Glam at all. I agree you guys who say it killed itself. Look at it: Power ballads really put a toll on it and every band wasn't really that talented to begin with. Motley Crue were definitely talented and so were Bon Jovi, Guns N Roses, and a few others, but not Poison and Whitesnake lol. I like some of Poison's music but its not what I would call creativity. "Every Rose Has its Thorn" is a great song, but its not genius. Glam wasn't about the lyrics, it was about the look. Grunge on the other hand really put more work into the lyrics. It made rock darker and to begin with, if it wasn't for Nirvana and the other Grunge bands, there would be no mainstream alternative rock. Cobain sang of depression, disfunctional families, and many other subjects. But he did something that's unique: he wrote most of his songs in complete sarcasm. Take "Rape Me" for example. He hated rape and practically damned all conservatives to hell for being against abortion. He was a very witty and sarcastic guy who just had a little too much baggage to carry. The media hated him and he didn't set out to be famous in the first place. The media like his music, but they didn't really like him too much. He didn't really like Hair Metal, but he did like some of the early bands such as Aerosmith, KISS, and Alice Cooper. He didn't kill Glam, Glam killed itself. Though of course on Nirvana's first album Bleach, which is 20 years old now, he didn't even focus on lyrics. Most of them he wrote on the way to the studio. the early sound of Nirvana was a lot more metal and punk influenced than Grunge. He didn't invent Grunge to begin with; it was Green River who began in 1984 and included 2 members that would go on to be in Pearl Jam. I don't want to step on anyone's toes. Glam and Grunge are great in their own ways. Glam is a lot more rebellious than Grunge and they lived a harder lifestyle than the Grunge rockers did. But They did a lot more drugs and really weren't that great to women either in the first place. Grunge rockers focused more on their songwriting and were really not too keen about being in the spotlight; Glam bands meanwhile jumped at a chance at being in the mainstream. Grunge rockers did their drugs too, but not as heavily and they didn't bath as much lol. I think Glam and Grunge are both great, but they both met their demise. However Glam is pretty much making a comeback unlike Grunge so it is interesting to see what's going to happen next.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bl4cFoxx
offlineMemberPostCount: 222
I'm sorry if I offend anyone..but my opinion is....Grunge should never return.
Posted 2 years ago #