GIVE ME A BREAK!
I feel so sorry for the kids who are growing up listening to these bullshit bands like Bring me the horizon and Suicide Silence who are everything wrong with the music scene today!
They have no talent! Their mass produced by record companies because they know they can make money out of them. They cant play, they cant sing and all their music and lyrics are written for them! Sound producers make them sound so fantastic in recording (to them anyway) and when it comes to them playing live there as useless as Ashlee Simpson is at miming!
Now I look at my brother, hes into all these horrible shit bands that just scream like shit in the mic and slam a cat into their instruments to make something they call "metal". ITS NOT FUCKING METAL! It shits on the word metal! Or they call in crunkcore, grindcore, metalcore, dancecore and its like "WHAT THE HELL!" these genres dont exist!
Like crunkcore good example of this music is a band called Brokencyde (look them up their terrible) they only have turntables and a keyboard on stage and say they sing "real music" they rap, play dance beats and scream into the mic all at the same time and little teeny kids go nuts over it!
It isnt metal! This isnt talent and it seems that these poor excuse for bands are over shadowing the real musicians out there who dont even get a chance! I would hate to be a teenager in this age because if i had to grow up with this music id be so ashamed haha.
Its real big amongst certain crowds in Australia and apparently huge in America! I really hope this is all just a bad phase of music and people get back to making real music!
What are your views on this? Whats shamefully big in your city?
Haha,I don't think this is really just a phase.pop punk was a phase,that I'm glad is over.ie.fallout boy,all american rejects,etc.metalcore has been goin on for like the last 6 years and doesn't seem to be slowing down.I wouldn't say they have no talent however.as much as I hate those bands,that's some badass guitar shredding.take alexi laiho from children of bodom.he's a badass guitar player.all those metalcore players r good.wat makes them sound like shit,to me anyway,is A.the screaming, and B.the horrible lyrics.the music itself is capable of being put in the thrash category.buuuuut,music opinions are based on the entire concept of the song,so the lyrics and the delivery ruin their credibility.I've said it before and ill say it a million times more.they're all great musicians,they all can really play,but ill never understand why they feel like they have to scream to be a band.if they play the exact same thing, and then sing instead of scream,ya got some kickass music.unfortunately,that's not the case,so ya got all these songs that sound like someones either being murdered or possessed by demons,haha.welcome to the 21st century.only thing we can do rite now is ignore it,cuz it can't be stopped.its gotten too big
Children of Bodom arent metalcore. There Metal! Speed metal or whatever you want to call them and some metalcore bands are rad like Killswitch engage and Bleeding Through, great musically, great lyrics as well. And good pop punk is awesome they play, write and create their own music. It might be lame but you have to admire that they can play their own music.
Im aiming more at the core/scene bands that are creating their own style of shit music just to sell albums.
They arent talented. Lets take Bring me the Horizon for example Olli Sykes the lead singer is a 21 year old whos vocals have been mastered, dubbed and effected in recording to make them sound a little better. Live he can not even reach a note. The guitarist has only been playing for 2 years and has admitted he plays music "By strumming any frets loudly until it sounds good".
Now Brokencyde a metal/rap/crunkcore music (they call it) that interacts dance, metal and rap into one. They claim they play music because "Theres a keyboard on stage". You have people in rap thinking "WTF?" and theen you got metal kids thinking "wtf?" and record companies swarm over them because they can sell.
The bands are tall thin and covered in tattoos which make girls fall over them "Market example one" and the heavy thrashing sounds they try to create makes people beieve their listening to metal when their actually listening to kids who dont know what their playing "market example two" scremo music has become popular amongst the kids because they aim to younger generations. They try to genre them in the trash/punk/metal catergories when they dont fall close to it.
Im sure there are metalcore bands out there that sound good but are overshadowed by the bad followers.
I love it when someone has the balls to bitch about the modern music scene. It does really fuck me off that screaming has taken over the mainstream (Again).
There has always been a huge underground following of extreme music in the UK. I must point out that it takes a lot of skill and physical fitness to play those genres.
PART #1 - SCREAMING:
The reason behind the vocal screams is simple: They match the context of the song topic. Clean or soft vocals cannot easily transmit the complex emotions anger, fear or aggression. Also (believe it or not) many extreme metal fans consider clean vocals to be "Gay". On the other hand melodic death, black, doom, industrial, emo and other variants do mix and match combinations of clean, growls, distorted or screaming vocals when necessary. There is also one other important factor to consider: The lyrics are purposely unrecognizable as listeners may find the true content horrifying, especially parents!
Clean vocals and exteme music can be heard in the power metal genre. The problem is obvious - to match the tempo the vocalist has to sing fast and high which can sound cheesy. Also, the music may be amazing but we will clearly hear when the lyrical content of the song is poor thus letting the whole thing down...
The fast tempo generally dictates the 'extreme' classification with musical key chosen to complement the vocals and/or mood. Bring Me The Horizon's lyrics include the quote "Cleanse this Earth and bring dooms day". Dragonforce sings "Believe who we are, the Phoenix will guide us". The evil lyrics are screamed out, the positive words are sung clean in harmony.
The following two videos show the difference between good and evil:
PART #2 - TRENDS:
Pantera, Slipknot, RATM, Korn, Marilyn Manson, System Of A Down, Linkin Park and Limp Bizkit were some of the first bands to set the trend for mixing clean and screaming or agressive vocals in modern commercial metal.
Mainstream agressive music dates back to the 70s and 80s with the punk, NWOBHM and thrash metal scenes. The Sex Pistols, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Anthrax and Megadeth released singles that made it into the top 40 chart.
As for Bring Me The Horizon, they formed back in 2004 and are from Sheffield, 40 miles drive from where I live. There is nothing new about the style of playing as the origins date back as far as the 80s and early 90s with the likes of British death/black metal bands Napalm Death, Carcass and Cradle Of Filth.
PART #3 - CONCLUSION
Well I can't give you the answer to the universe (42) but I can say that the music industry will continue to do as it pleases and talent rears its head in many guises...
Anyway - here are some youtube videos to chew on:
BTW Dash What do you think of the drumming on these tracks?
The screaming & "Cookie-Monster" vocals are fucking ridiculous! With a capital FUCKING! Any fan/follower of this 'music' deserves exactly what they get: Shitty music. To me, the entire genre feels like a bunch of alpha-male rockers trying to out-scream, out-thrash & out-shred the band ahead of them.
So many of these bands have nothing distinct or original about them. I listened to a few of Retroman's YouTube posts and couldn't tell one from the other! Pathetic & lazy musicianship! The guitarists, bassists & drummers can obvioulsy play their instruments -- however they forgot one important thing: SONGWRITING!! It's like they said, "We don't even have to have chord progressions, dude! Just thrash, bro, they'll still eat it up!!"
The screaming vocals are especially sad when one of these 'vocalists' decides to sing a line (you know, "for effect"), and you can hear that they actually have a good voice. What a fucking waste/shame!
"
The reason behind the vocal screams is simple: They match the context of the song topic. Clean or soft vocals cannot easily transmit the complex emotions anger, fear or aggression. Also (believe it or not) many extreme metal fans consider clean vocals to be "Gay"."
- Retroman
I don't think that the screaming(or speedy tempo) conveys ANY emotion. Sure, we hear a scream and understand it's supposed to be rage, fear...whatever. To me, it's like the crying of an infant: You don't know if the baby is sad, mad, hungry or annoyed that it's got a diaper full of shit -- All we know is that it's an ANNOYING NOISE THAT WE WANT TO STOP!
As far as the extreme metal fans considering clean vocals 'Gay'... Like I said before...alpha-male rockers.
HOWEVER, Accent-screaming to convey an emotion in a song? HELL YEAH! Examples: 30 Seconds To Mars' "The Kill", Sevendust's "Ugly", and the masters of it -- Linkin Park, with songs like "One Step Closer" & "Crawling".
Thankfully, this shitty form of music remains "underground" here in Texas. I doubt the masses will ever make this shit as mainstream as metal/glam metal became in the 80s. However, I thought the same thing about Rap once upon a time, and look what happened there!!
As they say, "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one." I just personally believe that any one who finds this music enjoyable to listen to is (like their asshole) FULL OF SHIT!
SIXX-Again First of all, I'm not going to take your "FULL OF SHIT!" quote to heart as everyone is entitled to their own opinion and from my experience a lot of extreme metalheads are full of shit I would say that some of your views on extreme metal are a little harsh but thinking about it... 99% of extreme metalheads have absolutely no respect for glam, writing the whole genre off as "Cheese" so fuck 'em! I could have done with you present during some of my past conversations with these assholes!!!
"I listened to a few of Retroman's YouTube posts and couldn't tell one from the other!" - SIXX-Again
I picked those videos carefully as each band is from a different genre and should be distinctive:
Power Metal (Dragonforce)
Grindcore (Naplam Death)
Death Metal (Carcass)
Melodic Death (At The Gates)
Black Metal (Immortal)
Nu Metal (Slipknot)
Rock (Marilyn Manson)
Metalcore (Blessed By A Broken Heart)
Thrash Metal (Anthrax)
Alternative Metal (System Of A Down)
If you can't pick up on the emotional energy of extreme metal then the whole genre is lost on you. For me, At The Gates "Blinded By Fear" (of the melodic death metal genre) is a blasting song. I first heard it when I was 24 back in 1996, I've witnessed the mental reaction to it on the dancefloor, in fact listening to it now makes me wanna go crazy! Most extreme metal has that effect when the listener is connected emotionally... I haven't played At The Gates for sometime, maybe 5 years but because of this thread, I've got "Slaughter Of The Soul" from 1995 blasting out loud A refreshing change that will fade away over the next couple of days...
Around the mid to late 90s onwards, you know the post glam metal period - My girlfriends were into black/death/doom/goth metal (you know - there's a factory somewhere manufacturing those bitches!) I got to know plenty about those scenes plus I was a metal DJ at the time (how convenient) Like I said, the UK has always had a big following of extreme metal. The DJing metal catalog can span anything from Bon Jovi to Dimmu Borgir... I'm not going to lie, I liked 50% of it as I grew up with thrash metal back in the 80s. Also, being a drummer, I was attracted to the speed of playing - Fear Factory especially.
For the record, I'd like to point out that I listened to extreme metal during some of the worst periods of my life The good news is that I removed most traces of those genres from my life when I stopped dating those wierdo psychomentalists and quit playing in bands back in 2004. I have kept some CDs for sentimental reasons.
I do find Bring Me The Horizon too vocally intensive for my tastes but some of those youtube videos do bring a smile to my face as I can still feed off the energy - In fact, I play Slipknot "Eyeless" when I'm in a really bad mood and need to freak out!!!!!!!!!
So just like glam, I'm living in the past with metal so I don't know much about the new material - That is I only recognise the old stuff and classics hence the screen name Retroman...
Who knows, if glam metal had carried on maybe I would have skipped 90s metal? At least I'm now back with my first glam metal girlfriend
Maybe my musical attitude is unique because I DJ? One thing I will say, I am a complete "Corporate Whore" - If I have to play Kylie or Lady Gaga I will, just like I played extreme metal because glam was dead and not in demand! The side effect is that you have to study and get into the music you DJ - IT CAN GROW ON YOU
"Thankfully, this shitty form of music remains "underground" here in Texas. I doubt the masses will ever make this shit as mainstream as metal/glam metal became in the 80s." - SIXX-Again
Most 80s metal was an exception as it was soft enough to play on the radio. You don't have to worry about extreme music making mainstream radio - ever!
So before I have to moderate myself for going off topic what has this got to do screamo metal and the original post by Brooklynace ?
I'm simply commenting on the way the music industry evolves. I've had to change as a DJ and drummer because the market has dictated that I change! Trends change and music seems to get more radical or extreme over time. The Rolling Stones and The Beatles were prime examples of the age gap between the young and old... My dad used to see the bands of the 60s performing on TV and say that they needed to get a good haircut??? In case anyone hasn't noticed... the lyrical content of pop music has become more sleazy over the years catching up with (and overtaking) glam metal...
As for "brokeNCYDE", these losers suck. The fact that they use Auto-Tune on the vocals to get that fake robotic sound puts me off 'em before I've even had chance to listen to the first verse... They got panned by the critics so I woundn't worry too much about em' becoming an overnight sensation. Here's a cut from them - just remember you won't get the 3 minutes and 52 seconds back that you waste watching the following clip:
Evolution dictates that music will get more and more extreme and ridiculous!
RETROMAN! *falls to knees* YOU ARE THE FUCKING LEGEND! A true man who knows what music is! How to tell whos pure metal/death metal/ melodic metal etc etc is and can pin point who are the posers!!!
If I had a hat, it would go off to you!
And Sixx-Again quite upset that your raggin on good metal tunes! You cant have a opinion and try to battle people who clearly have open ears to all genres of metal and know what were talking about. Not calling you stupid or anything dude. But you need understand the facts first before you come in arms waving!
"And Sixx-Again quite upset that your raggin on good metal tunes! You cant have a opinion and try to battle people who clearly have open ears to all genres of metal and know what were talking about. Not calling you stupid or anything dude. But you need understand the facts first before you come in arms waving!"
-Brooklynace
Exactly what good metal tunes did I 'rag' on? And who am I battling? I was giving my opinion on the style of music that you were initially dismissing as "bullshit bands". Now you're upset that I'm "raggin on good metal tunes"? What exactly IS your stance on this genre of music?
My ears are wide open to all genres of metal, Brooklynace. I'm very familiar with Dragonforce(my daughter loves them, I don't...), Slipknot(They're starting to grow on me), Marilyn Manson(modern day Alice Cooper wannabe), System of a Down(like it when Daron sings more than Serj), Anthrax(one of the few thrash bands I like), Carcass, Killswitch Engage and Bring Me The Horizon...Even heard Brokencyde(Yes, they suck)! I'm not gonna give you band stats on them, because I don't care about them or their music, and as a result I don't research them. I'm not gonna split hairs with those bands to decide which one is Grindcore, Metalcore -- Applecore, whatever! Who gives a shit?! I don't need to know if the metal is pure/death/melodic etc, etc. The same way I've heard people argue over the different types of Rap, or debate if GNR was glam metal or not...
DOES THE MUSIC SPEAK FOR ITSELF? That's the ONLY important thing!
And 99.9% of the time with this type of music (to me) it doesn't. I've given them all a chance, looking for something NEW in the metal world to excite me. Just like I gave Rap music, New Wave, Alternative, Hip Hop, Pop, Disco, Country, Thrash and Glam Metal a shot throughout the years -- some excited me, and some did not.
RETROMAN - Glad you didn't take the "Full of Shit" comment to heart. You dig that kind of music...Rock on! Cheers!
yea, i guess im not understanding that either,brooklynace.so r u for the screaming,or against it? children of bodom scream,so i call them a scream band.any band that screams,i call a scream band.the only one two who can get away with it and sound good,r seb bach,which is more of a screech with pitch,and Lizzy Borden. Ill admit that the only scream band that i can stomach a little bit is Shadows Fall cuz Jason Bittner is a beast behind the kit, and also they can shred like no other.
yea retroman,the drumming of all these bands is incredible.i give respect to anyone that can play double bass that fast.ive been playing double bass for awhile now,and still cant play fast double bass rolls at high speed tempos.and prolly never will,cuz i dont care to.and the fact that im making a band in the vain of poison,warrant,def leppard,etc. it doesnt make sense to try and master it,but im a huge fan of intricate double bass beats ie:prog stuff.but yea,i give massive props to all the speed drummers as thats some hard shit to do.
Sixx again...dont have your period of this. Its a simple discussion. And if you thought this discussion was pointless because "who cares about the genre" why the hell did you put your 2cents in? DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Oh and this is what you ragged on
"As they say, "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one." I just personally believe that any one who finds this music enjoyable to listen to is (like their asshole) FULL OF SHIT!"
It was my opinion, people with musically inclined ears understand the difference between good bands, bad bands, different genres by listening to them all over. And no just saying "oh thats screamo" without even giving it a chance,
It just seems here that people really dont know different genres of music besides Rock and got their little hearts broken when someone disagreed with them about certain music.
A band that uses scream, growl vocals isnt just a 'scream' there are heaps of different styles of metal judging by the style the musicians play in and music shouldnt be judged by just singing alone.
Oh and because SOME people on this post cant have a simple discussion without being immature, crying and having baby fits ill delete it. Maybe my thoughts would be better suited for people who arent so against something if it doesnt sound like Axl rose.
The initial point made by Brooklynace has been lost so I feel I should remind us all again of the question:
"What is your opinion on the recent spate of bands that combine pop, dance or urban music with exaggerated elements of established metal genres to sell to the teen market?"
Thanks so much retroman! I think your the only one who knows what Im on about on here and that makes me happy
Your one awesome dude who knows music through and through!
Much respect.
Well,somehow this thread turned ugly...but id like to say that I'm one of the people that throw bands together,grouping them in one genre,without caring.for example,I call a band that has long hair,and plays 80's metal,a "Hair" "Metal" band.and like duh,I kno that technicallly they aren't cuz hair metal is its own category.and I don't care when people try to tell me that it shouldn't be grouped in.I'm not saying that like say Megadeth is actually "Hair" "Metal".I would say they're hairmetal.using it almost in a different way,if that makes any sense at all....so in any case,I would say that any as I call "scream band",cuz that's how I personally categorize it,that has predominately long hair,I would call a hairband.and again,like I'm not REALLY serious about that grouping cuz I kno its technically not.but when anyone trys to bring that up to me I'm just like"watever dude,this is just how I do things."I'm not a big arguing type of person cuz I believe that both people end up being right in the end in some way or another...but staying on topic,a lot of these type of bands,or mostly all of them get tons of play on Headbangers Ball nowadays.I used to watch it all the time last year and like the year before,just cuz like I said,the music is awesome.I'm learning to not let screaming bother me so much now versus a couple years ago when I just was like wtf? ,hahaha.but yea,Ive given them all a listen at one point or another from watching that show.sometimes they'll throw in some King Diamond,Lizzy Borden, or Dragonforce,but mostly its these bands.ill give credit to myself for actually sitting down and watching modern day Headbangers Ball cuz when Firewind broke mainstream with Premonition's Mercenary Man a couple years ago,I was one of the first of my kind to kno about them cuz no one really watches Headbangers Ball anymore.so thank you Headbangers Ball of modern day for throwing me a curveball one day and making me the Firewind fan I am today,haha
Extreme metal hosts some fantastic drummers. You will find that many of them have been playing for years. It takes a special set of daily exercises to achieve those speeds. You will actually find that speed techniques will allow you play the more up beat glam numbers tighter and more fluidly - it's not cool being on the edge of your abillity when playing songs such as Skid Row "Slave To The Grind", EMN "Lord Willin'", Bulletboys "Crank Me Up", Motley Crue "Live Wire", Doro "Under The Gun", PBF "Leather Boyz With Electric Toyz" or Spread Eagle "Suzy Suicide"... I'm not saying that you can't play those Dash.
Live gigs usually give away who's got the real power when it comes to drum solo time
GENRES:
When I was a teen back in the 80s I classed music as either metal, rock, pop, classical etc - it was only later as I started to study music history that the whole genre thing came together for me...
Music genres can be a major pain in the ass for various reasons that I'm not going to go into right now but they must exist just like we classify literature, art and other forms of culture. Genres are needed in many aspects of everyday life to maintain order.
I once heard somebody say (can't remember who) "Music journalists invent new genres to keep themselves in work." - Not sure if that is true or not but I do know that some engineering is done between the press and the record publishers.
One example is the simple fact that some magazines tend to sway the outcome of reviews in favour of who's paid for advertising and who hasn't. The invention of genres is deeper than we think!
"Sixx again...dont have your period of this. Its a simple discussion. And if you thought this discussion was pointless because "who cares about the genre" why the hell did you put your 2cents in? DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
"Oh and because SOME people on this post cant have a simple discussion without being immature, crying and having baby fits ill delete it. Maybe my thoughts would be better suited for people who arent so against something if it doesnt sound like Axl rose.
THE END!"
- Brooklynace
Actually my period ended last week. You, my girls, are contradiction personified. Nice to meet ya. Heard a lot about ya.
I was merely attempting to join your simple discussion. I gave my opinion. Nothing more. That's how discussions work. I don't quite understand your hostility toward anything I said. Retroman and I don't see eye to eye on this music and we leave it at that. Simple. No need to insinuate that I know less than anyone here, or that I'm menstruating.
I'm sorry. Next time I'll use less vulgarity and/or exclamation marks so you don't think I'm yelling with my "arms waving".
DASH - I guess I'll just say 'ditto' after your posts on a Brooklynace topic, man. You basically have the same opinion as me on what I thought the topic was(Screamo - for or against?, and the topic that was spawned by the original - genres). Maybe the thread won't turn ugly.
Well, I indeed was exposed to the "core" side of music, since I went to school with a bunch of sheltered suburbanites. Well, I'm a suburbanite, but with enough common sense to come around and find what I consider tasteful music. But, we all have our thing. I have friends who were "into", to say the least, a little band known as "Norma Jean."
Hey, if all of your insecure female friends, are into scremo, you're pretty much royaly fucked. I was basically alone in my musical preferences, but their parents were bizarrely enough into glam metal, well that's not bizarre at all because most of them were into their late forties and already had their experiences with it. So being that my friend hated her parents, she rebelled into the music of her generation.
I don't care enough of the music to hate it. It's basically out there and we can't take it back. I honestly don't mind it. It's not like it's fucking up my life with it being in the middle of the road when I'm trying to get to my doctor's appointment. It's just there, take it or leave it.
I don't really care about it. Sure, it's annoying when kids think this music is the best (one of my friends doesn't like "old" stuff and is tellin me that people need new rock music and that the music he listens is really good and has a deep meaning. I sometimes really want to punch him in the face.) People are different, so it's normal they understand music differently. I still think that shitcore sucks, but if a person doesn't shove it in my face, then I just accept (or ignore) it. Though I love hardCORE punk. I listen to music I think is good and that's what only matters to me. Still, I would love if people converted back to true r'n'r.
what is crunkcore? something to eat?
anyway i wouldn't eat anything with that name...and neither i would listen to it....
lol
about screamo and metalcore, well i can't believe that people who listens to motley crue or van halen can also listen to slipknot or bring me to the horizon.
i signed on this site cos i was sick n tired of talking about that s**** (sorry i meant kind of music)but well i guess everyone has his tastes.
Scene Core shit is fucking lame fake metal posers emo little bitches my friends have taken me to a couple of show by bands like that fucking most boring show with nothing but little girls preteens trying to act tough the music is so weak and so badly put together those little faggots can be as loud as they want but their music has no balls. I hate people that call those fucking weak ass posers Death Metal/ Melodic death Metal/ Black Metal/ Thrash Metal. They are NOT!! hate all those prissy ass bands
I would say that some of your views on extreme metal are a little harsh but thinking about it... 99% of extreme metalheads have absolutely no respect for glam, writing the whole genre off as "Cheese" so fuck 'em! I could have done with you present during some of my past conversations with these assholes!!!
A refreshing change that will fade away over the next couple of days...
The good news is that I removed most traces of those genres from my life when I stopped dating those wierdo psychomentalists and quit playing in bands back in 2004. I have kept some CDs for sentimental reasons.
You dig that kind of music...Rock on! 
Cheers! 
Actually my period ended last week. 
